Dr Kaylene Henderson on No-Nonsense Tenderness

Lukas: Where did you like to play as a child? I ask this question a lot because childhood memories shape us into the people we become. Welcome to Play It Forward, a worthy podcast. I'm your host Lucas Ritzen. Thanks so much for joining me. I talk a lot about play. I'm a dad, I'm a husband, I'm an educator and I'm a playground designer. So I want to gather some of my favorite people who are advocates of children and nature and create a space to have an honest conversation about getting more kids outside. The power of play is very often underestimated and I think we all need a little more play in our lives. My next guest is a medically trained child health specialist and one of Australia's leading parenting experts. She is also a grateful mother of three young children, popular for sharing her expertise in a warm, relatable and gentle way. She's created a range of resources for parents and educators in supporting children. We had the pleasure of finally meeting in person recently at a Parent TV book launch where we both contributed as authors. Parents, this is the one thing. Today we're talking about the challenges children and parents are facing, how play can be preventative, measuring anxiety and building the trust for children to have their own voice. Please welcome into our Zoom studio Dr Kaylene Henderson. Thank you so much for joining us on Play It Forward.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Pleasure, Lucas. It's lovely to be here. I'm so excited about this. As I mentioned off air, feel my cup in being a better dad and you're the go-to, so thank you so much.

Lukas: Oh you're lovely. Pleasure. Let's start off where we do with all our new guests - where did you like to play as a child?

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Oh look, I'm going to say I wasn't too spoiled for choice. So I grew up in Brisbane and I'm one of six and it was pretty busy growing up, so there wasn't a lot of going out of the house apart from the essentials obviously. So I was kind of a neighborhood kid, you know, most of us were back then though. I was either out in the backyard strolling around the neighborhood with various combinations of neighbor kids, or I was completely lost in a book for hours to a day. That was the other thing that I used to do. So it wasn't kind of action-packed or terribly high-flying, but it was exactly what I needed I guess.

Lukas: Yep, life happens for us not to us essentially. I can relate - one of six boys, but being all boys there was little time for sitting and reading a book. It was too hectic, it was the other end of the scale. I remember coming towards the end of holidays my mum would always be "now just relax, I'm not going to hospital the week you go back to school, just chill." But every holiday it was someone got a broken bone, someone got stitches, someone got something.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Oh no, no, we did have our fair share of those too but thankfully not every holiday.

Lukas: And being the type of person that gravitates towards your more quiet time and your book time, how's that contributed to the work you're doing today?

Dr Kaylene Henderson: I think I've learned, you know, as much as it didn't seem terribly exciting when I was growing up, I've really learned the value of downtime and I think it's something that I have noticed that a lot of kids miss out on these days and I do think we see the effect of that in some of our more stressed little ones. I think knowing how valuable downtime was for me on those holidays, you know the school terms are always busy, we do need downtime. We need to be able to actually physiologically reset to bring our baselines down a little bit so that we've got a bit more scope to deal with whatever's coming. You know if we're always kind of highly strung and up to here and coping with more than we necessarily can, it doesn't take a lot to kind of tip us over the edge and make us feel really anxious. So I think if anything, growing up the way I did it has given me more appreciation for the value of downtime and I've certainly been really keen to embed that in our everyday lives with my own children knowing how valuable that is.

Lukas: Yeah, and that leads into my next question perfectly. Is this one of the major challenges you're seeing that parents and children are facing in current society communities? And it's not just our kids as you said, it's parents as well.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: We're all just a bit too busy I think. We're all a bit too connected. We don't really have that downtime we used to. We used to be able to disconnect and you know there was a clear boundary between work life, home life - that's completely blurred and gone now really for many of us. I think for parents, you know, we're often on. We're often on with our own lives trying to stay connected to our emails, trying to kind of micromanage our children's lives, and children absolutely feel the effect of that. And I think we all suffer unfortunately. It's hard to know how you undo that, but yeah I think we have seen the effect of that in the levels of stress and anxiety not just in our kids but parents as well.

Lukas: Yeah and that would be that aspect of that emotional contagion - becoming a product of the people you surround yourself with. Even if you're trying to manage your self-care, there's only so much you can do without those prominent people in your life being highly strung all the time. And the children not having that voice to be able to remove themselves from it. So this is passive impact of overwhelm which their little bodies aren't prepared for. Or even on the other hand, there's no outlet to burn that - there's no outlet because we're creating that world for them.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Yeah, agreed. Kids are masters of household tension and seeing this with my own children - when I'm stressed or irritable or I've got too much on my plate, my brain's too busy, I'm more short-tempered, more irritable, I'm less attentive to my children's needs. And you know that plays out not just in the way that I often react rather than respond to my children, but it plays out in their behavior too.

Lukas: Yeah, I felt lucky enough for my wife to have that clarity and just ask me the odd question every now and then saying "is that a reaction or is that a response?" And I'm "well played." What are some techniques you use for your children to bring that doing and create more being?

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Well we do a lot of being with. I do a lot of being with my children. I love my kids, they're great humans thankfully, and I love being with them so that makes it easier. But I mean I guess I am more conscious given you know my profession and what I've seen clinically - I am more conscious that when I'm with the kids I try to be with the kids. You know it's easier said than done sometimes - I've got to make a phone call or I've got to catch up on emails - but I make it clear that that's a defined period. You know, I'm just going to check out for a few minutes and do this and then I'll be back with you. I don't try to do it all the same time because that's where it gets tricky. So no, I mean it's just a matter of separating yourself from you know your to-do list and just trying to be all in. And it doesn't even have to be too long for kids to benefit from that. I often find even if it has been a busy afternoon, putting five minutes in at home before you know sending them off to various showers and homework and all the other things that they need to attend to, just having a few minutes of fun and connection and just being all in in those moments. Yeah it kind of sets you up for the rest of the afternoon it really is. I think it's just seeing the value of just a few minutes of being fully present with your kids and delighting in them and having fun with them and listening to what they tell you about their day, you know, really being present.

Lukas: Yeah and I don't know where it is, I'll have a look and try to put it in the show notes, but there's something out recently saying that eight minutes a day of contact time is the cup filling for your children, to steal Sandy Phoenix's term "the cup fill." But also it there was a lot of guidelines around yeah it's quality time, but the big difference was that there wasn't an agenda. It's you're not probing the child, you're not "how was your day, is my eight minutes, I'm going to get something quality out of you." It was just okay, where are things at? And sometimes you've got to spend the seven minutes of not so much and getting past the wall to get that one minute, but it's that eight minutes. To go back to winding the clock back, what pulled you into your field of study initially?

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Your why essentially, it's I just find it intriguing everyone's got their own little motivators.

Lukas: Yeah it's a good question.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: I've always loved people so that ultimately guided me towards psychiatry. I've always loved helping people so I kind of found my way within medicine towards psychiatry. I loved the fact that when I was working with adults I was working in public adult mental health for a long time before I specialized in child and adolescent psychiatry that I got to know adults really well and they didn't have to retell their story every time they came into hospital because it was still me and I knew them and I remembered and I was just happy to help them from you know help them pick up from where they left off so I really liked the opportunity to build relationships with people that were a little deeper than I perhaps would have been able to manage had I gone into surgery or some other field of medicine. But I started my child and adolescent psychiatry training around the same time that I became a parent actually so that was a while ago now my oldest is 13 now and I think it was when I was studying child and adolescent psychiatry and studying the you know amazingness of the of the developing human brain and you know the importance of those first few years and how many incredible neuronal connections occur every second I think there was so much that I learned in those early years of being a parent myself that benefited me and my family that I was really struck by the fact that our generation is really the first generation to have been blessed with all this research you know previous generations were kind of winging it as we do to it as well but it really struck me gosh there's so much research now that actually guides how we can interact with our kids to bring about the best outcomes for our children in terms of how they learn to see themselves and their place in the world how they relate to their peers whether they develop into empathic you know responsible respectful humans all the things we want for our kids and there is all this research around how we do that but it didn't feel like it was being shared widely enough. It felt like I could impart that knowledge you know one-on-one in a clinical setting but it really struck me as a parent of young children then why why isn't this why isn't this out there there's so many louder voices on the internet that possibly shouldn't shouldn't be there who are influencing all these parents in such a vulnerable life stage I just really wanted to be able to share what I felt really blessed to have learned knowing that it would ultimately help our next generation yeah so that's that's kind of the why.

Lukas: I can completely relate working in early childhood having my own children and delving deep into the research around play around risk back in the day when it was all coming to the forefront and being like how everyone needs to know this as a parent you're like this is essential this should come as a everyone says like children don't come with a manual but I was like maybe we should make a manual this would be good information to have actually pitch into that manual.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: I know I feel really lucky as well.

Lukas: I know yeah so we spoke about those challenges of the doing what are the other hurdles that parents are facing at the moment and then we can delve into let's take some action on giving some parents some tools to deal with these challenges.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Yeah I mean I think part of it relates one of the challenges is what we just kind of touched on there is that once upon a time we did kind of wing it as parents and we were guided by our own parents or you know the people we surrounded ourselves by now as parents we we kind of are bombarded with parenting messages from everywhere there's a there's a lot of noise on the internet and around the place about how parents should be parenting their children and I think that just puts enormous pressure on us as parents as on all of us and I think the implication when there's so much noise is that there is an expectation we somehow have to do this perfectly which obviously isn't possible nor would it be helpful even if it was our kids wouldn't benefit if we were perfect all the time yeah I think part of not only are we too connected but I think we also put a lot of pressure on ourselves as parents to be these perfect parents and I think that can get a bit muddled up sometimes sometimes parents can kind of interpret that to mean we need to give our children every opportunity possible and err on the side of you know over scheduling our kids or we can kind of lose ourselves in the mix if we think we've got to be this perfect you know grown up on a pedestal in our house we can we can kind of forget that their children actually really benefit from having a real authentic relationship with us as you know flawed but loving guiding humans you know I think there are downsides to to the the pressure that comes with parenting.

Lukas: And it's that what I'm hearing is it's kind of like our avoidance of feeling guilty has like pushed us into like feeling more anxious as parents and feeling we have to get everything right when what our children need is and I talk about it in play all the time is it needs to be real it doesn't need to be a replica and even when it comes into relating to our children having those conversations saying hey I messed up I'm still learning I had a conversation with my daughter last week around hey I'm still learning to be a good dad and sometimes I mess it up and but I'm here to look after you keep you safe and help you learn.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Yeah there's this wonderful term I'm not sure if your daughter's come across it yet but at school my children have been taught about the concept of learning which is learning through failure and that's become part of our vocabulary at home I learn all the time I'm a really good model of how to learn quite often but but my kids they get the real me you know we have a real relationship a really rich genuine relationship where they know I'm not perfect but I will always try to be their go-to person and I will always strive to provide that kind of ideal that imperfect ideal but that ideal of no-nonsense tenderness where I'll I'll be in charge I'll I'll guide them through life but I'll also be you know the person who's got their back that they can turn to when they've had a tough day you know getting that balance right I think if we're if we're all a bit more committed to just having these authentic relationships with our children where where their no-nonsense tenderness guides through life and not this perfect parent on a pedestal I think we're just going to lose that idea it does put too much pressure on ourselves and we do we wind up not only feeling guilty but also not having the kind of quality relationship that that we and our children benefit more from yeah.

Lukas: Yeah hypothetical you go to pick up your children from school they jump in the car they're obviously frustrated and not really open to a gentleness and there's a bit of a wall what's your strategy in getting around that yeah working with it not necessarily getting around it.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Yeah well it depends on how grim the situation is I remember so when my I'll just say when one of my children I'll keep it anonymous one of my children was in prep I'll say she which narrows it down to two but she was going through a bit of a tough time socially and we would literally get halfway down the street and she'd lose it at someone or something and and those days I would just pull over on the same street that the school was on and say gosh it looks like you've had a tough day and jump in the back seat with her and just kind of hang out there until she was feeling a little bit better because there was actually no point even setting off any further otherwise it was just going to be a schmorzel all the way home there'd be you know he or she's breathing on me you know the world's the world's horrible. It depends if it's just a bit of a we haven't had that for a really really really long time though but if it's if it's just that kind of you know I'm not there yet mum kind of situation then it's really just about respecting that providing that connection and empathy I've had those days I've got those days where if I jumped in a car with someone straight away and they said how today I'd be like can we have this conversation in an hour because I'm not and that's fine so saying so saying something like seem

Dr Kaylene Henderson: It's like it was a little bit tough, how about we have a chat about it later? No worries, do you want to listen to some music now or will I just ask everyone else how their day was? How do you want to play this? It's just keeping that two-way communication open, respecting that if they're not ready to talk now that's fine. You can't force a child to tell you about their day. Indeed you wouldn't get an honest answer. It's also respecting that it's not the way the brain works. So when children are feeling really upset there are different brain pathways activated from the ones that are in charge of logic, language and learning. So if you want the language to come out, if you want to hear about the day, you're not going to get it when they're in an upset state. They actually need to feel better first, they need to calm down first, and the best way to help them calm down is allowing them to feel like they're with someone who gets it, that they're with someone safe who gets it, who's going to give them time and just allowing them the space until they have calmed down enough, those language pathways to kick in. And then it might not be until bedtime and you jump in beside them while the lights are off and say hey I never heard about your day, was there anything you wanted to tell me? It looked like it was pretty tricky. Go from there, but picking your moments I guess because there's really no point pushing those moments when they're not ready to talk to you.

Lukas: Yeah, and we're coming from the years past of the parent being the authority and it seems what I'm hearing is you're trying to position yourself as, for lack of a better phrase, a peer and a confidant even.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Yeah, I know what you're saying. You actually do still have to be the authority I think. So it's tricky when a parent isn't an authority. When they talk about that authoritarian versus authoritative parenting style, both reference the fact that the parent actually still needs to be the authority. So it's not a peer, you're still the person who's in charge, but you're relating to them in the way that best works in terms of relationships, in terms of how the brain works. At the same time you're modeling for them how to be with others when others are upset. So it's just about interacting as people should interact with other people, even if one of those people is a child.

Lukas: Yeah, and the thing I think I'm trying to articulate is that that approach can be dismissed as not being authoritarian and we all know as parents there is this position of guidance, of authority, and it's not submissive to put yourself in that vulnerable situation with your child which can be constantly dismissed as oh well I've got to be the authority and to be vulnerable is not that, when it actually is.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: That's a good point and that is actually the difference between that authoritarian and authoritative parenting style. So authoritarian parents tend to expect their children to follow the rules, they're very much in charge, there's no need for explanation, punishment follows when a rule isn't obeyed. Whereas authoritative parenting style, which we know from research has better outcomes for children, there is more two-way communication, there's more respect for a child's need for assertiveness and it fosters or values cooperation rather than obedience. And I think you're right, if that wasn't your background though, if that wasn't the way that you were parented, it would be easy to dismiss that and say that's not how it's done because it wasn't your experience. But I think again coming back to what we spoke about before, that's where we're lucky as our generation being exposed to this research. We can say okay well that might have been how my parents did it because that was what they knew best, but we're lucky to be also influenced by research and if that's what the research tells us is most helpful then it's not to say we can't learn along the way as well. And it is, we know that that more respectful, empathic, authentic way of relating to our kids in which you are still in charge but there is more of that two-way communication, that actually benefits our children much more.

Lukas: So when it comes to putting into action, another hypothetical just to make it relatable for our listeners, your child has a bit of display or emotional response in the form of what we would label a meltdown or something like that because you've had a disagreement. The authority would be cut that out, time out, go to your room etc. What would be the authoritative response?

Dr Kaylene Henderson: I think there needs to be, it helps us all to realize that children when they're having a meltdown they're essentially showing you what I'm feeling right now is too big for me to handle, so I need your help. So I think it's just about seeing children's behavior differently. If we see it as them doing this to us, they're doing this to wreck my afternoon, they're doing this to annoy their brother, whatever it might be, or to get their own way, naturally there's going to be a different response. But when we see children's meltdowns as being what they are, which is what I'm feeling right now is too intense for my systems to handle, I need your help, then it's a lot easier to say okay I'm going to help you calm down and then we'll figure this out. Because with those different brain pathways waiting in turn, we do need to help our children calm down first and then they can do their learning from the situation, or then we can use their words and let them know what they could have done differently or ask their opinion on what they could have done differently and perhaps even practice those situations. But it's always about gosh it looks like it's got a bit too big for you right now, hang on we'll just calm this down first and then we'll figure it out. That's what I would normally do with my kids, just recognizing this is a help me calm down moment and then you move on to does any learning need to happen out of this? How could this have been approached differently? Does my child need to actually repair this situation with their sibling or their peer? It's helpful for kids to learn how to fix stuff when it goes wrongly socially. That's the order you've got to do things in. So yeah, I can see you're having a tough time, I'll help you calm down first and then we'll figure this out.

Lukas: Yeah, collaborative approach. Would that be what you could label the highest value task for a parent? Where would that lay if you were to narrow it down? I know it's broad but gathering in all your expertise.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: It'll be up there. Can I have two? There's two that have really struck me because they are really high value and a lot of us didn't necessarily experience them ourselves as children so we may not know to do them ourselves. But one is actually just allowing our kids to share their emotions with us and for us to step up and help them manage that intensity before we move on. And I think for me personally when I think about how I would like my relationship with my future teenagers and my future adult children to look, I would very much like for them to be able to come to me if life gets really overwhelming. And what a lot of parents I think don't realize is that the way we instill that message that we would all want for our children to know is by actually allowing them to come to us when they're little and they're overwhelmed. It's not to send them away. When we send our kids away when they're feeling overwhelmed when they're little, then that's what they're going to learn as they grow up is that we can't be their go-to person if things are a bit too messy or if things are overwhelming or a bit upsetting. And that's not the message any of us would want for our future teenage adult children to misconstrue. So it's very much, firstly about being there for our kids and helping them when they're melting down and seeing it for what it is. And the second one is actually delighting in our children because delight is just really high value to use your words. Delight is communicated non-verbally, it's just the way your eyes light up, your face lights up and the way your body turns towards someone when you're with them and it communicates I'm delighted you exist.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: You haven't had to do anything, say anything, you know, be particularly witty. I'm just delighted that you exist. And when children see us light up just because they exist, it makes them feel pretty good about themselves because we are hands down the most important people in their universe. And when this happens often enough, they develop an internalized sense that they must be inherently good and valuable, lovable humans if they can make us light up. And the research backs up that being delighted in as children is the foundation for self-esteem development for kids. For a lot of parents, we were either not shown delight because it wasn't thought to be important, or again because our parents didn't have that in their own backgrounds. Or for us as parents now, I would say there's an added complication that sometimes we're so busy we forget to demonstrate to our children how genuinely delighted we are that they exist. So I think the other high value parenting kind of task that I often come back to is to delight in our children, because not only is it really meaningful for our kids, but I think it's so quick, it's so easy, and it's so genuine because all the parents listening to this today, they would be genuinely delighted that their children do exist. And to think that we forget to show them sometimes when it's so easy to do, I think that's probably something we can all do more of.

Lukas: Yeah, yeah, and it's like you said, it's accessible, it's right there, it's easy. That's so great, that's made my day. I love that response. To change gears, what role does play play in fostering that child to grow up like you mentioned earlier, respectful and empathetic and compassionate?

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Play! Oh, I don't have to speak to you about the amazing values of play. Play serves so many purposes for our children. It provides that physiological reset, that true downtime that our children need. It provides that communication of what's happening in their inner world that they may not otherwise be able to express using language. It's opportunities for them to kind of play out situations, tricky situations that they're yet to gain mastery over. There's so much in play. The way that, gosh, I'm just thinking about my own children in play. There's, my brain's, you've just filled my brain. This is really tricky. I'm finding it hard to string the sentences together. So I would say playing with others is a wonderful opportunity to be able to take turns, to see things from other people's perspectives, to be able to explore different scenarios as you would in a social situation. And that's obviously very valuable for children. Having someone like a parent just kind of sit or lie there on their belly and just kind of be there and be present with them is a very respectful thing too, and to not intrude on that play. And that's beautiful modeling for how to simply be with others in a really respectful way too. So it's not always about what they're doing in play, but it's often about the company that they're in, or even just the fact that they're allowed time for play, that their play is respected. My youngest in particular, he still has some great play sessions, and I'm still mindful even though he's nine now and play isn't, that unstructured play isn't as big a part of his day as it once was when he was smaller. I'm still really careful to say at the end of it, now if we've only got a little bit more time before dinner, can you have a think about how you want your play to end and work on your ending now please, rather than just kind of calling time on it. I think just the fact that the play is respected is a really lovely and valuable thing for children too. But there's, gosh, it's a huge topic. Seeing all the value that comes and the social skills and the regulation skills that come from play, it could go on for hours. But it's about the content and the process really, isn't it?

Lukas: Yeah, and it's like the play is the work of children, serious work. And to respect their work by honoring the language you use is like, by association, I support you to be you. And that was like, as an early childhood educator, the whole "okay pack up, let's go, morning tea time" or "rest time" or "this or that," and then the children are just like, have that emotional response of that annihilation of their play, and then they get angry, confused and upset because they have an emotional response. And then the educator or parent's going "oh what's wrong with them?" as opposed to just approach it respectfully and say "hey, where do you want to put this so you can continue with it later?"

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Yeah, so you can come back to it. It's a little strategy, and that comes down to building trust within our relationships. And obviously being from that clinical background, building trust is so integral for children to opening up.

Lukas: So children changing schools, children changing grades, new social settings, what is your recommendation to the educators out there about building rapport and building that trust for the children in our world?

Dr Kaylene Henderson: It's really about just building those foundations of a good relationship, isn't it? It's about being genuinely interested in the child you're working with. It's about asking them questions, asking their opinions and genuinely listening to the answers. It's about offering choice and supporting children in their own decision making. It's about asking their preferences for things. It's about following through when you say you're going to do something. If you say that we'll do that activity after lunch, then you follow through on that, that you're true to your word. And again, coming back to that delight, I think if you can incorporate that delight and enjoyment in your relationship with children, it's hard not to feel connected with someone who is delighting in you and who is taking the time to really enjoy the day with you. So making sure it's not all about a job. I know that there's so much work involved in education and there's the constant battle between administrative responsibilities and on the floor responsibilities, but not losing sight of the value in truly enjoying the children you're with and delighting in them and connecting with them. Because as we said before, it doesn't take a lot of time, an investment of time for you to do that, for that connection to build up really strongly and for that to carry them through the day. So it's always worthwhile thinking about how you can include more delight in your relationship. For a child to feel delighted in, they will absolutely feel more connected with you. When they feel more connected with you, they will trust you more, and they're also going to want to be more cooperative for you because we all want to do better for the people that we think of as special and who seem to think quite highly of us. We want to be our best self for the people who see the best in us. So there's payoffs there too in terms of children's behavior. Not that that should be the goal, but you'll certainly see that as well.

Lukas: Yeah, just building that basis of reciprocated respect. It makes me think of when we all think back of those influential teachers and educators in our life, and I'd have to say those people you reflect on are showing that delight in you as well. They've honored you through delight. So for our listeners, I'm assuming you'd be feeling that as well when you reflect on those influential people. I mentioned in the intro that we both contributed as authors to the Parent TV book, and for our listeners, parents, this is your one thing. A whole bunch of people from around the world, experts in their field, were asked to write a chapter on their one thing. So do you want to give a little sneak peek of your one thing to our listeners?

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Yes, so I was asked to write about, because I had too many one things, isn't that terrible, just like I did to you earlier. So the one thing that was chosen on my behalf, which I was completely happy with, was aligning with children against problems. So trying not to avoid, essentially avoiding power struggles with kids, because as we all know, when you face a problem with a child, there can be a temptation to line up against a child and to try and sort that problem out because you're bigger, wiser, you've been here longer, you've got more life experience. But when we

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Try to, you know, when we pick a battle with a child, when we engage in a power struggle with a child, they're learning from us all the time. They simply dig their heels in and do the same, and generally speaking there's no winners. You know, it's a lose-lose situation. So what I recommended for parents in that book and what I strive to do myself, but I will put in a disclaimer that I don't always nail it because we're really not all, you know, none of us are perfect parents, but what I strive to do is when you're facing a problem with a child is to line up with the child against the problem. So you position yourself using your language and say, "Gosh, it seems this has got pretty tricky for us. How are we going to make this better?" And you can use that in any situation, you know, in the crazy morning rushes you're heading out to childcare, for example, when your child is doing four thousand things other than brushing their teeth and you're going bananas. It can be easy to just lay into your child because you're immensely frustrated, stressed, under time pressure, but it won't make it better. What makes it better is when you can say, "Gosh, we're finding it really tricky to get out the door on time this morning. How can we make this better? What can you do, do you think, and what can I do? Okay, right, we got this." And really aligning with your child against the problem, because when you do that, you're likely to have a more cooperative child on board who takes ownership of the situation and is therefore more likely to follow through with whatever you'd like them to do. You're strengthening your relationship with your child because you are embedding yourself once again on the same team and teaching them that whatever life throws at you, you've got this together. And that's great for children to hear, but you're also teaching them pretty good conflict resolution skills when they're older too. You know, they'll have battles with their own friends and partners long term. If they face those problems saying, "We're in a bit of a tricky situation, how can we make this better?" that will always be better than picking a fight. So I think that's a really valuable thing for us as parents to start doing when children are very young because it really does promote that problem solving, you know, problem-solving skills in our children. The relationship benefits and more cooperative behavior, you know, the payoffs are huge and it's so simple. It's ultimately more time efficient too than engaging in a power struggle because they're awful. You know, if we can avoid them we should avoid them. It's just a simple way of aligning with your language that I've found really helpful as a parent.

Lukas: And because sticking with the theme of hypotheticals and it's a challenge many friends are having at the moment, what about how do we align with our children although if they don't want to go to school? We're talking about morning routines and actually don't want to go to school, but you know there's a certain amount of that authoritarian say, "Well, it's happening," but also coming from that place of love and compassion, trying to find out why, but also those time restraints come in. I want to be kind, I want to be compassionate, I care for you, I love you, we need to still get to school today.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Yeah, it's still that balance though, isn't it? Still that no-nonsense tenderness, that's that ideal balance. It's the no-nonsense is unfortunately school is compulsory, we can't just skip it, but providing that connection and empathy and aligning with your child against that problem is certainly the way to go. So saying, you provide that connection and empathy in the moment of saying, "Oh, I know, I wish I could stay in bed all day too. How good would that be? You know, I get it, I get it, I understand." And that helps children to feel contained and safe and, you know, less likely to try to go into battle with you. And then you do say, "You know, the situation is though, you've got to get to school, I've got to get to work. How are we gonna do this? You know, do you want to, how about we get ready together, or do you want to have breakfast at the same time, or are you right to get ready while I go and make lunches? How do you want, how do you want this to work? What would work best to get you there?" The other thing to keep in mind though is if it's a repeated problem, children, as I've mentioned a couple of times, they're not learning while they're upset. So if you're noticing it's coming up, you know, a couple of times, picking your moments to try and understand what's happening rather than trying to unpack it all while your child's upset and digging their heels in, because as I said before, while your child's upset and those activated brain pathways are online, they can't really access the words or the logic to be able to explain their predicament or to understand how to go forward with this. So picking different moments, so if you had that moment in the morning, you got past it, you finally got them to school, then again either that afternoon while you're playing with them or, you know, snuggling beside them in bed that night, saying, "And what was that about this morning? Do you want to tell me what that was about? I'd love to understand why you didn't want to go to school this morning. Was it just that you're really tired, or is school a bit tricky at the moment? Help me understand." And then actually, if it is a repeated problem, saying, "Well, the tricky situation is, you know, school is compulsory and for good reason. You're going to learn amazing things at school, you're going to make amazing connections with your teachers and friends. Ultimately you're gonna love it, but I get that it's tricky to get there at the moment, so how can we make this easier for you to get there?" Again, just aligning with your child against the problem, but picking moments where they're not already upset. I think that's the other thing we need to be a bit careful of is just our timing. If it is a repeated problem, trying not to uncover it in the moment while they're losing it.

Lukas: Yeah, yeah, not trying to push it for your narrative. Now you do have a bunch of resources and things that that you're destined to help so many parents. So to share with our listeners, where can they find you? What resources are available? Lay it out for them because you're an amazing resource that can help so many.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Thank you, you're lovely. I've tried to set it up to help as many as possible because I do try to get around the country normally with seminars, but obviously that's become a little bit tricky in COVID and post-COVID time. So what I've set up on my website, adoseofawesomeness.com, are essentially a whole series of online advice packs that parents can access anytime. So they're very solution focused, so if your child is having, say, an issue with anxiety, if you've got a toddler whose behavior might be driving you a little crazy and you're not sure what to do with, if you've got a little one who finds it really hard to calm themselves down from those big feeling states, picky eating, screen time, there's heaps of topics there that are very much focused on a particular problem that your child might be struggling with. And then essentially you have access to a presentation from me, a video presentation, and some written tip sheets to help guide you through that particular problem, because that, as I said before, I feel so lucky that I have learned all these strategies and approaches, but it seems crazy to wait until children are struggling so much that they need to see somebody. What makes much more sense to me is that parents know, already have access to those strategies so that they can jump in early, help upskill their children as early as they can really, and just add that, you know, dose of awesomeness to their already awesome kids.

Lukas: Yeah, I love the dose of awesomeness. I say to my kids, I was "Who's awesome?" "Now yeah, I am!" "Sure, good night, who's awesome?" "No, that I am!" Love it. Thank you so much for joining us today. I'll have all of those links in the show notes so parents can click on there, get over to it. Practical, easy, accessible, real, no fluff, no mess, get it done, support the children with love, respect, empathy, all the things we need more of in the world. And personally, thank you for reaching so many people and making it your mission to support families and creating better communities for my children to be a part of in the future. So thank you so much.

Dr Kaylene Henderson: Oh, thank you Lukas. It's been a pleasure, and likewise you.